Two days ago Joann Tortarolo sent a picture of this vase from the Redlands Historical Museum for identification.

We’ve received a bevy of responses.

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The green vase looks European to me, probably Bohemia/Austra.

Jane Shadel Spillman, Corning

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The lobed green vase is Czech. Note the ground top.

Charles Sweigart, Reinholds, Pennsylvania

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The piece is definitely Bohemian; I cannot determine whether it is Loetz or which other Bohemian company made it without more pictures and information.

David Goldstein, Naples, Florida

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Regarding HG Steuben #8, I agree with Rande that it is most likely Loetz, or more accurately stated Loetz type. Unless it is signed, which I assume it is not, it cannot be definitely attributed to Loetz since there were other companies making this iridescent green glass in Czechoslovakia at the same time. Unfortunately many dealers generically call all of this type of glass Loetz, because it brings more money as Loetz than as Loetz type. We are very fortunate to have all the Steuben line drawings to use as identification. Not many glass companies, including the Loetz company, left behind such extensive records for researchers and collectors to use.

Harry Morgan, Beverly, Mass.

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I never saw that form before- it’s one of the austrian makers…. I don’t think loetz,
Dick Stark, Potomac, Maryland

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This is not Loetz. It is from that area and we have expanded the possibilities to Wilhelm Kralik or Joseph Rindskopf. We are searching our photo data bases and will try to narrow it down for you.

Regards Richard Grove, San Carlos, California

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I agree with the others. I have a Loetz vase with the same or similar finish.

Kathleen A. Herdell

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I identified HGM Steuben No. 8 as a Loetz Creta Papillon, if it has a ground and polished pontil, if not it is by Kralik as they made similar pieces.

Leigh Demrow, Janesville, Wisconsin

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The Value of Responses
Thank you, all, for your assistance to Joann and the Museum. I tried to jump in and i.d. the “easy” ones, but as I’ve said before, I’m no Steuben expert. What I did learn from this process was that my instincts are pretty good when trying to discern S&W glass from Steuben.

Learning, learning… a lifetime of learning. Michael Krumme

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From Joann Tortarolo:

I have printed out all of the emails of our discussions of all of the pieces and am in the process of producing a notebook that documents the collection.

I will be putting together a summary document that identifies each piece and its characteristics–along with the continuing questions regarding some of the pieces. The HGM can then share that with others and use it to re-label its collection.

Many of the questions involve the “bottoms” of pieces that are currently well glued to the glass shelves. We will need to rearrange the glass to more accurately reflect what is Steuben and what is another maker so we will be attacking the “glue.” As Marshall cautioned me, we cannot use a hair dryer because of its potential negative impact on the glass. Thus, we will need to find another way to dissolve the glue.

We still have questions on some of the pieces which need to be resolved. We have accomplished a major task of identification thanks to the support of The Carder Steuben Club and now we need to work on taking action with our collection. We will also be revising the descriptions of pieces that are detailed on our insurance documents.

Again, thank you so much for your help! You have made a valuable collection so much more valuable because of the accurate information that you have added to it!

Question to the Gazette

Would it be possible to present Gazette issues in some digital way that doesn’t dismember photos in the printing process? Tom Westervelt

Answer

Near the top of this e-mail that asks if you’re having trouble viewing the Gazette. If so, it says “click here” If you do you will go to a website which reproduces this Gazette, in a printable friendly version.

Review of Redlands Historical Museum Images

Thus far you’ve seen about 10 images from the Redlands for identification. There are about 40 more to view. They’ll slowly, but surely come forth.

Dating a Piece of Steuben

Two days ago we reviewed a passage from John Hotchkiss’ book that ascribes the earliest dating for various shape numbers. Scott Hansen of Briarcliff Manor, New York has some additional thoughts.

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I have just a bit of additional information to add to your chart linking shape numbers and production dates that appeared in Gazette 1657.

There are no line drawings known in the 4000 number series. Well, there is one – 4920 – you can see the vase in Dimitroff at Figure 8.4. (If you really want to be confused, look at Gazettes 1074 and 1075 where the same shape piece as is shown in Dimitroff Fig. 8.4 is identified as having shape number 4921.) The reasons for this lack of 4000 number line drawings are unknown. I have heard speculation that the 4000 series was reserved for special orders, but, if so, it was never used. The last known number in the 3000 series is 3678 and it was reached right about the time Corning Glass Works bought Steuben Glass Company. Apparently, a decision was made to have a break in the numbering series so numbering resumed with 5000. Why most of the 5000 numbers are missing is also a mystery (at least to me). There is also some evidence that the Aurene signatures changed when Steuben was acquired by Corning. Before 1917 Aurene + the shape number was used and after 1917 Steuben Aurene + the shape number was used.

There are many gaps in the numbering system. Drawings may not yet have been found or may have been lost. As the story goes, the line drawings as we know them today were retrieved by Paul Gardner from the trash. Had he not been in the right place at the right time, imagine the difficulty we would have today properly identifying Carder Steuben. The possibility still exists that additional drawings will be found. Not all of the Carder Archives at the Rakow Library at CMoG have been completely researched and there is a large volume of Paul Gardner’s papers at Alfred University that are essentially unresearched. I understand that there is a large number of drawings there in the 8000 series.

This brings me to another point. The last category of line drawing numbers in your chart should probably end with 7749, the last known number in the 7000 series. The 8000 series was used for noting special orders (perhaps this was the special order number series after the acquisition of Steuben by Corning – just speculation on my part). I presume (but don’t know for sure) that 8000 and above were used before 7749 was reached in regular production.

Any opinions expressed by participants to the Gazette e-mail newsletters are the opinions of the authors and are not endorsed by or the opinions of the Carder Steuben Club.

2013 Carder Steuben Club annual Symposium will be held at The Corning Museum of Glass in Corning, NY from September 19-21, 2013. The festivities will begin with Frederick Carder’s 150th birthday celebration on the evening of September 18, 2013.