From Dean Six, Curator, West Virginia Museum of Glass, responding to Keith Tripi’s comments
about what is important. After a vow And pledge to write never more on this page I find I want to meet Keith Tripi- a voice of reason in a world of questing proverbial needles in haystacks! Thanks Keith. You rekindle hope.

Keith said:
The debate about whether or not Mr. Carder had a middle name or used a middle initial is as
pointless as trying to resurrect him just to find out why he thought his birthday fell on September 18, 1864 (as he stated in the passport application). Carder had more important and lofty things to dwell on in life, and so should we. It’s funny how collectors seem to debate the most inane things when the facts are uncertain. Please, let’s not rewrite history when, as here, the facts are certain on their face.

Jo Ann Godawa passes along her search on F. Carder

Name: Frederick Carder
Birth: Sep 1863 – Stourbridge, Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands, Worcestershire
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
Birth, Marriage & Death View Image
Preview
Name: Frederick Carder
Year of Registration: 1863
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Stourbridge
County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands, Worcestershire
Volume: 6c

John Lolley of Monroe, LA conveys his strong opinion on minutiae. John, it doesn’t change the essence of what you have to say, but the information from Jo Ann Godawa shows a birth date of 1863. The 1837 date is the beginning date of the index the information came from.

I have withheld joining in on this ridiculous pursuit of whether Mr. Carder had a middle name or was born in 1863 or 1864. Now we have been advised that he was supposedly born in 1837 (Jo Ann Godawa) which would have made him about 126 at death. How ridiculous!
I agree with Dean Six, the only voice of reason expressed thus far has been by Keith Tripi. In addition to his remark of “questing proverbial needles in haystacks”, we also have a saying in the South of ‘making mountains out of mole hills’. I belong to the Club in order to learn significant information on the collecting of Carder/Steuben glass and have just about “gotten my fill” on the subject matters.
John Lolley

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Shovers
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:42 AM
Subject: Carder Steuben Club Gazelle Gazette 7/15/08 He couldn’t help himself.
From Dean Six, Curator, West Virginia Museum of Glass, responding to Keith Tripi’s comments
about what is important. After a vow And pledge to write never more on this page I find I want to meet Keith Tripi- a voice of reason in a world of questing proverbial needles in haystacks! Thanks Keith. You rekindle hope.

Keith said:
The debate about whether or not Mr. Carder had a middle name or used a middle initial is as
pointless as trying to resurrect him just to find out why he thought his birthday fell on September 18, 1864 (as he stated in the passport application). Carder had more important and lofty things to dwell on in life, and so should we. It’s funny how collectors seem to debate the most inane things when the facts are uncertain. Please, let’s not rewrite history when, as here, the facts are certain on their face.

First, David Goldstein & Marshall Ketchum point out that the date shown in Mr. Carder’s application for date of birth of 9/18/1864 is incorrect and should have been 9/18/1863. In The Glass of Frederick Carder by Paul V. Gardner @ p. 58, the author says:
On September 18, 1963, the guests Carder had invited to his ninety-ninth birthday celebration were enjoying the traditional toasting, which had come to be the main after-dinner feature, when the accolades were suddenly varied by a toast proposed by Robert Rockwell. It characterized Carder as a “fine artist but a poor mathematician.” In explanation, Rockwell state that he had recently received official word from England that Carder’s birth date was September 18, 1863, thus confirming that on that very day, September 18, 1963, Carder was a centenarian.

Next, from Keith Tripi
The characterization of the alleged Carder “passport” is prima facie incorrect.
First, it is not a passport; it is an application for a passport. Second, that is obviously not a photo of Mr. Carder at age 57. That is a photo of a woman wearing a woman’s hat. Based upon the passport application, it might be a photo of Annie Carder who was applying for a passport to accompany Fred. Put another way, Fred had the mustache, Annie didn’t. Third, to the extent that the photo appears verso and the application recto , and without any context as to the binding, we really don’t know who the photo is of or why it is there.

(Ed Bush suggests it may be nothing more than the preceding page from someone else’s passport application)

The debate about whether or not Mr. Carder had a middle name or used a middle initial is as
pointless as trying to resurrect him just to find out why he thought his birthday fell on September 18, 1864 (as he stated in the passport application). Carder had more important and lofty things to dwell on in life, and so should we. It’s funny how collectors seem to debate the most inane things when the facts are uncertain. Please, let’s not rewrite history when, as here, the facts are certain on their face.
Let me suggest Keith, that what is important, indeed is Mr. Carder’s art, as one of the great American art glass artists of the 20th century. Not where he was born, his middle initial and even his travel plans. However, let me also suggest that there is frequently a fascination with great men and women who have had a special affect upon us and the world we live in. Over and above the basic facts of one’s life’s work, many have a fascination with studying every facet of the luminaries life to understand them and their contribution to society better. On a daily basis, Investor’s Business Daily newspaper devotes a page “Leaders & Success” trying to look for the clues to what makes these luminaries special. Perhaps a fascination to find out everything possible about Mr. Carder may seem to lead to the trivial, at the same time it’s what people do about great people. This application for a passport just adds to his lore.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jo Ann Godawa. See the attached passport for Mr. Carder. Note, no middle initial. Jo Ann, we’ll be looking forward to more documentation.

Hi Alan,
Thought you would get a kick out of seeing the attached picture of
Frederick’s Passport, especially his picture! He looks like a child in a J.G. Brown Painting.
I found many records of his travels which I will send to you. I was
surprised to see a departure log showing that he and George Sinclaire took a six months trip together to four countries.
Best regards,
Jo Ann