Rande Bly responds and is trying to summarize where this discussion has gone and what has been learned:
In my first e-mail to Alan I expressed concern that I had taken photo’s of the broken Light Jade Blue #2851 bowl with my cell phone rather than my good camera. I will also concede to the fact that once again I am perhaps viewing this subject on a much too technical perspective. I hope I have not brought about confusion to the subject by doing so. Marshall is correct for all practical purposes and I feel we will find his description to be correct in 98% of our examples. However as far back as 25 years ago having my eye for color I began to spot what I thought to be two different kinds of blue jade. The majority of pieces seemed to have this beautiful crisp bright true blue color because of being cased over the flint white. In most every occasion the piece was accented somewhere with flint white showing. For example a foot, a handle, a ring, etc.. On rare occasion I would notice a blue jade piece that depicted a shade of blue that I thought was less attractive. More pasty looking taking on slight hues of a turquoise. And I mean very slight. I said to myself, I am seeing two types of blue jade. One of them less attractive. I got the same yuk feeling from these examples I sometimes get from Yellow Jade. I believe there is mention that Carder got the same feeling from his Yellow Jade. He apparently did not care for it. Anyway, back to the blue jade.
I was under the impression I was hearing the word “always” come up with the discussion on Light Blue Jade and perhaps it’s use as a casing on ACB pieces. Well being a little stubborn and trying to prove a point I capitalized on the moment and proceeded to show that whenever we use the word “always, or never” when we are discussing Carder Steuben we are going out on a limb. I set about to prove that Light Blue Jade was a color and a glass type not a method. Also to show that the pieces we were seeing were actually Flint White cased in Flint White Blue. Also to show that there is a good chance we could cross an ACB piece simply cased with a single layer of Flint White Blue. It did not have to be an ACB Alabaster vase cased in Light Blue Jade which was cased over Flint White. Did I loose anybody? What I am trying to say is Light Blue Jade does not ALWAYS have to have the Flint White center and can be used as the casing for an ACB piece all by itself. I also just happened to have the proof in a broken #2851 bowl where Light Blue Jade was used by itself without the Flint White Center showing that Light Blue Jade is a color and a glass type all to itself. Again a perhaps too technical of an approach for practical purposes but that is my nature and defiantly helps me to separate fact from fiction in my investigative research to Carder Steuben.

Now Marshall comments that he has crossed information in the Philpot record or the booklet that accompanies it indicating that Light Blue Jade/ Flint White Blue could be used all by itself in one solid homogeneous piece that was 45 years old. Well, here 45 years later I just happened to have the broken Light Blue Jade Bowl showing just that. Can we at this point turn our heads the other way and continue with our doubts about the authenticity of that report or should we accept the new information and confirm that report? Could we also at this point continue to assume an ACB piece might in fact be cased in a single layer of Light Blue Jade before it was cut back? I feel it is an acceptable assumption. At the same time I was excited to find what I felt to be legitimate new discovery. Something that has always thrilled me in my relentless search for more knowledge on the mysterious subject of Carder Steuben. However I do apologize for going techno on ya all. Marshall, don’t make me brake another piece for the third example…….tee hee.

I want to add how much I respect all of you and how very very grateful I am to come and glean information from everyone here. I am good with color and good with the TCC’s(Transparent Colored Crystals). Although being “financially challenged” my experience has been limited to the little “junky” Steuben pieces and have had little opportunity to own and handle the good pieces. My passion in this field is shared by many here so I know you will understand that when I say the reason I am so vocal here is NOT driven by my perception of what knowledge I think I may have. From the bottom of my heart I am here to tell you I just get so excited I can’t seem to keep my mouth shut. Thank you all for being so patient with me and please continue to share so I can continue to learn about the glass I love. I want to meet you all in person so badly.

Ps: One other interesting observation. From what I am seeing Light Blue Jade is not a blue alabaster but a blue colored flint white which is a different process than what we see used in the other colored jades. I am having suspicions from the color tone I am seeing in Carder’s rare Turquoise Jade that it may be a turquoise flint white rather than a turquoise alabaster.

If we see light blue alabaster like in the parfaits and alabaster stemmed goblets with varying colors of jade bowls these pieces will be Stevens and Williams. I have not yet seen Carder use Light Blue Alabaster Jade at Steuben. I do however find the Stevens and Williams Light Blue Jade pieces very attractive.
Rande Bly

Next, Randy responds on the subject of light jade blue to Tommy Dreiling’s questions:
Tommy’s question #1:
01. In the cased pieces Randy said they are Light Blue Jade over Flint White. I thought they were Celeste Blue over Flint White.

Rande’s response:Celeste Blue is used to describe one of Carder’s totally transparent crystals. You would be able to see through this color very clearly and the white would be starring you in the face. It is the unique combination of two opaque or semi opaque types of glass layered on each other that creates the desired effect. The opaque Flint White beneath the opaque Light Jade Blue brings brightness, and sharpness to the blue casing. Maybe someone could also add to this to help verify. As far as your belief to the color being Celeste Blue. This only is my thoughts and I have no formulas to verify this but I have always thought Carder used his other color techniques to color his Jades. A shade of Celeste Blue to make his Light Blue Jade. A shade of Green #5 to make his Jade Green. A shade of his Amethyst to make Plumb. Flemish to make Dark Blue. Gold Ruby to make Rosaline.

Tommy’s question #3:
03. It looks to me that when Light Blue Jade is used as decoration on Verre de Soie Dimitroff page 235
Fig. 10.85 and as petals in floral stoppers Dimitroff page 256 Fig. 10.146 that it must be a solid color.

Rande’s Response: Thank you Tommy for finding this example. I would have to agree with you that this would be an example of where Light Blue Jade would be used in an homogeneous manner. You also helped me with another matter when I mentioned Turquoise Jade. After bringing up the rare color of Turquoise Jade I suddenly realized someone would make me prove there was such a color and glass type. We can turn to Gardner color plate XI to see Turquoise Jade used to decorate the VDS bowl with the same prunt and threading as your example. My assumption to be homogeneous also. We have also seen Turquoise Jade used to decorate Mirror Black in the same fashion. I have also seen a solid one color Turquoise Jade Lamp Base ACB in shape 6229? cut in an Oriental pattern that went through e-bay at a steal because most people think there is no Steuben Turquoise Jade.

Tommy, I think the petals on the perfume are most likely cased over flint white while the threading on your other example of the VDS piece could hardly have the white interior and the prunts would also have no white interior so as to match the threading. Can you see a slight color change between the two examples? The petals seem more stark to me.

I have heard stories of Calcite Sherbets with a Celeste Blue lined bowl but was probably just a fish story. I bet they would be beautiful!

——————————————————————————–
From: Alan Shovers
To: Alan Shovers
Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 8:39:51 AM
Subject: Carder Steulben Club Gazelle Gazette #725

Saturday, October 25, 2009
FOUR QUESTIONS
Tommy Dreiling of Brooklyn asks these four questions about light jade blue:

HI

01. In the cased pieces Randy said they are Light Blue Jade over Flint White. I thought they were Celeste Blue over Flint White.

02.. I have always thought that there must be a non-cased Light Blue Jade color. In Dimitroff page 251
Fig. 10.131 there is an ACB of Mirror Black over Light Blue Jade. That piece would seem to be a solid blue, not cased.

03. It looks to me that when Light Blue Jade is used as decoration on Verre de Soie Dimitroff page 235
Fig. 10.85 and as petals in floral stoppers Dimitroff page 256 Fig. 10.146 that it must be a solid color.

04. The Stevens and Williams Jades are all clearly Alabaster with something else added to make it a color. The Carder Jades are clearly totally different type of glass. Plum Jade is a cased glass and Dark Blue Jade is clearly not an Alabaster based glass. The S&W method seems more uniform to me that the Carder Jades. Any thoughts as to why Carder went such a different direction?