1. Charles Sweigart of Rheinolds, Pennsylvania observes:

” I was amazed at the color of the fake in the first post. I would have preferred it over the purported real one in a heart beat.”

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2. Scott Hansen of Briarcliff Manor, New York adds to the discussion:

“Alan –

I have a little additional information about my “8513” vase in response to Michael Krumme’s inquiry. I do not know anything about by whom or when my vase was made. One person I showed the vase to suggested it was machine-made and that makes some sense to me. As for the number of pieces out there, I am currently aware of two of them for sale – one with a Steuben attribution and one with a Stevens and Williams identification. Interestingly, the description of the Stevens and Williams piece states that Carder “took” this decoration and shape with him to Steuben when he left Stevens and Williams.

There is a picture of this shape in Ray and Lee Grover’s Art Glass Nouveau at plate 272 on page 142. The color of the body of the vase looks more like the “fake” vase but the blue aurene decoration looks more like the genuine vase. I believe the body color is simply a function of the lighting and photography and that the Grover vase is genuine.

Scott”

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3. Finally, David Goldstein of Naples, Florida gives us historic information on this 8513 vase:

“THE 8513 COPIES

I believe these copies are of European origin and were made in the 1960’s. They were probably made in either Czechoslovakia or Murano. I bought a pair of them as Steuben at Christie’s East in the 1980’s. I showed them to the late Bea Schwartz, a dealer’s dealer, who told me they were copies and showed me the things to look for: the Yellow Jade color, the uneven color of the applied decoration and the flat ground top rim.

I returned them and got a full refund. However, they were again sold as Steuben. This time around they were purchased by a New York dealer. By the next time I saw them, they had acquired phony acid fleur de lis signatures, and were eventually sold as signed Steuben. Since then I have seen many of the copies but none of the originals, except in museums.

When I think about the future of collecting a worry about how the new collector is going to learn how to distinguish the right stuff from the copies. Our Club and the museums help, but, because there are so few shows and live auctions, the new collector does not have as many opportunities to handle glass that my generation of collectors had.

David Goldstein”

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YESTERDAY DAY WE SHOWED THE REAL AND FAKE 8513 STEUBEN VASE

Alan –

Marshall Ketchum posted a picture of an 8513 vase in the Gazette (yellow jade with blue aurene decoration). He mentioned in his write up that there are copies out there that aren’t Steuben. You may remember that I own one of those copies (one of the hazards of buying in on-line auctions from pictures). I sent him a picture of my vase and he combined it with the picture of the authentic vase. The Steuben vase is on the left.

Scott Hansen, Briarcliff Manor, New York

2013 Carder Steuben Club annual Symposium will be held at The Corning Museum of Glass in Corning, NY from September 19-21, 2013. The festivities will begin with Frederick Carder’s 150th birthday celebration on the evening of September 18, 2013.