Sunday, December 26, 2010

Randy Bly’s views and his wrap-up on the extensive discussion and debate on Cardinal Red

Paracheirodon Cardinalis

David Chadwick-Brown’s signed plate

Cardinal Red Vase

Cardinal Red Tennis Shoes

You are right James Jory. I had forgotten about that piece, thank you. When I was in Corning they did have a Steuben orange red piece with the clear coat on it at the museum. I hear what you are saying about you remembering it because you were looking for the clear coat specifically. It was an orange red vase and had the clear coat. I remember us talking about it saying it didn’t look like the other Rouge Flambe pieces. Color was slightly off for Rouge Flambe just like these pieces. I was there 35 years ago right around 1975 It was one of the last pieces we saw that day. I remember us trying to name all the pieces as we saw them. When we got to that one we asked ourselves what is this? I do not remember anything saying it was Rouge Flambe. We walked away thinking it was Rouge Flambe with a clear coat. I will contact the museum and see if we can find he piece.

Cardinal Red is a very rare color. It is not a Christmas Red or Strawberry Red like the candlestick that was shown. It is more of an orange rouge red It is very rare color even in nature. I will include two pictures where we find Cardinal Red in nature, one picture of some Cardinal Red shoes, and one picture of the clear coat Cardinal Red paper label vase that reminds me of the shape of the vase you speak of that was at the museum. Although I do not remember the shape distinctly. The cardinal bird is not Christmas red but orange red in color. Notice the technical name of the fish is Paracheirodon Cardinalis . Notice the orange red color as seen in nature and how it looks in a man made product with the shoes. The plate I showed from Private Collection had a lot of the orange in it. David Chadwick’s plate is more red and the Julia plate I showed is so red it looks almost exactly like Rouge Flambe. Go back and look at the three plates I showed. Again this color ranges from rouge red to an orange red in color just like Rouge Flambe does and looks exactly like the cardinal bird does. A very unique color. This is one of those Steuben unique colors. Does the cardinal bird look more like the candle stick or more like the plates and the vase I have shown?

When I talked with Jane Prentiss at Skinner she told me that the experts who actually saw the ACB red Sknner vase in person had no trouble with the cutting on the vase looking right. The issue was all about the clear coat. She said after studying both the pros an cons it was their first choice to list the vase as Steuben. Later that was changed to French. She said they were not sure it was French. She went on to explain the listing was changed to protect Skinner on a possible return not because of a positive identification on the vase. She suggested we as as the Steuben group figure it out.

Let me review a little by saying I think we have a Carder Steuben Red here. A few of you out there I have working on this with have told me “ Rande don’t do both the new red and Cardinal Red at the same time” Break it in two parts and do them separately”. I am sorry I have always felt they had to be done together.

Question is what red is it? I asked if we might call it red jade, (selenium/cadmium sulfide jade, Rouge Flamme? I have to draw the line here and say I am out facts and have no proof it was called Cardinal Red. I do however have some good ideas. Let me start with what it is not.

I already clarified this is not Rouge Flambe. This is also not Rouge Flamme like we saw in my original 1926 color add. I have examined the original color add with a jewelers loop and the plate pictured under the marketing name of Rouge Flamee is the plain non ribbed real Rouge Flambe plate like the one in the Rockwell collection. Rouge Flamme is a marketing name for real Rouge Flambe. Bob Muller and I both have this add and we are working to get a second confirmation whether the plate in the add is ribbed or not.

We started looking for Cardinal Red about a year ago through the Gazette. I started the project under the article “Hunting for Red October”. We worked collectively with good response and by the time we were done we didn’t have any thing. About the best we could come up with was a glass knife. We were looking
for Copper red. We always have been. We couldn’t find any. I knew there was no Cardinal Red made with copper but things sometimes are just best when discovered together. I have been working on this for 20 years and about one year with the Gazette. I knew where this was going and the first step I had was to take away everybody’s copper red Cardinal Red. Guess that was done almost a year ago.. Marshall Ketchum recently wrote to confirm and convey that he found to no state of satisfaction that an example of Cardinal Red had been come across while logging the entire new web site. I wrote him back and told him I had an idea but he wasn’t going to like it because it involved Eric Ericson.

The copper red we were looking for was nothing more than stop light red. Carder did not make a copper red. When asked why he said ” it is ok for stoplights but not for fine art glass”. He made Gold Ruby and Selenium Red. I agree Marshall no copper red Cardinal Red.

So what was my next step? I started up a fun discussion about Rouge Flambe. Is
there two generations 1915 and 1926. We had fun with the Rouge Flamme. We were beginning to ponder if there might be perhaps 2 kinds of Rouge Flambe. The old good stuff and the newer not so good stuff. This was gently opening the subject of what are we seeing? Are we seeing two kinds of Rouge Flambe. Well the answer is firmly no. Funny how many of you saw two kinds. Hey I even convinced myself and happily went away seeing two kinds. I saw mine as Rouge Flambe and Cardinal Red. Many of you saw your two kinds as the Rouge Flambe and the Rouge Flamme.

Some of you saw the 2 reds we were seeing as Rouge Flambe and fake Rouge Flambe. People viewed it in their own way. Point is? We were beginning to see what appeared to be a new category of red color. There seemed to be a solid grouping of 1915-1916 Rouge Flambe that everybody agreed was Rouge Flambe. We had left over a few pieces we felt were from 1926-1929. They looked a lot like Rouge Flambe but many felt they were too shiny, not opaque enough, and a little too orange in tint. It just wasn’t quite right for Rouge Flambe. We noticed that the 1926 add called the plate shown Rouge Flamme. It was beginning to look like we had two kinds of Rouge Flambe. The 1915 kind and the 1926 kind.

I started my article about a year ago called “Hunt for Red October” so eventually we would get around to looking at these 1926-1929 pieces of red glass. There was beginning to be way too many of them.

By now we had in captivity the vase with the paper label. David Chadwick- Brown’s signed plate with the white streak and two other matching plates one from Julia and one from private collection. One of you reported back with the story of the story of the set of 4 plates that ended up in Mr. Rockwell’s hands.

Let me share with you what an old friend of mine had to say about Cardinal Red 40 years ago. He said and I quote what he wrote:

” If one is ever fortunate enough to ever chance upon Cardinal Red either signed or unsigned ,there certainly will be no mistaking it. I do not recall ever having seen this particular shade of red in any domestic or imported ware. At first glance Cardinal Red is quite close to the Rouge Flambe shade of red, decidedly so. However, on close inspection it has a character unlike that of any Cardinal inspired crystal, for while red and very transparent when held to the light there is a most discernible swirl which appears to be caused by an infusion of a denser material which gives it the visual effect of a translucent glass. It is quite possible that this effect was deliberate and caused by the addition of an opalescent white glass.”
Ericson Book Two page 39

It was a plate he was holding in his hands. Ericson was holding a plate and describing it first hand. Ericson was holding a plate just like David’s and just like the Julia Auction plate. I am sorry but Eric Ericson was not talking about stoplight red or Christmas red. Everyone has seen that color. He said he has never seen this shade of red in any domestic or imported wares. He said you will think you are looking at Rouge Flambe. No one is going to confuse copper red with Rouge Flambe. You may however at first glance confuse Cardinal Red with Rouge Flambe.

Today I will include the photo of David Chadwick-Brown’s signed plate with the Alabaster? swirl or streak that has not been shown yet.

This has been a very hard project. You see discovery is nothing without acceptance. My goal has always been presenting the information in a way it can be accepted or the train will still travel in the same direction.

Hunt for Red October….It was not about copper red. It was and is the hunt for the very Steuben red we are discussing right now.

Folks, looks like we are at a crossroad. Where are we gonna go with this? David’s plate does not have a fake acid stamp signature on it.

Do you know why I think this tragedy happened with this glassware. Fear. Rouge Flambe put the fear of God into everyone. We tremble when we touch it. Our knees get weak when we hold it. We gasp when it is decorated. It is serious money. Well every time Cardinal Red came forward it always was always with the question “do I have Rouge Flambe, what is this stuff”? Well it just wasn’t Rouge Flambe so the answer always came back don’t touch it with a ten foot pole. This was the advise given by the experts. So …everybody missed out. And maybe it was right under our noses all the time.

FINAL SUMMARY
1) I have seen enough of this red glass type to feel 100% positive it is real Steuben
2) I cannot prove yet it’s color name was Cardinal Red. I believe it and I am after 20 years still working on it.

Let’s all see if we can find out what this glass is.

While we are on new Steuben glass types someday soon I will write an article about another Carder unknown glass type that both Beth Shaut and I have sold. I still have the pictures from mine. As I understand it Bob Muller’s new book will also have some new examples. I am here to report to our club unknown Steuben glass types and colors that are identifiable as Steuben are still showing up. Like it or not. Just because some of us have not seen them before does not mean they are fakes.

Rande Bly

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